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Dementia and your finances

Av
Ava · · 9 replies

I recently listened to this podcast recounting the story of a woman who was trying to figure out her father's finances as his memory declined.

I would imagine for those of us who consider ourselves to be smart and responsible with our money, it's very scary to consider that that we might mess it all up one day due to reasons we can't control. And it doesn't look like there's a lot of good solutions, but would love thoughts from the community about how we may be able to protect ourselves from ourselves?

"Some of the earliest signs of dementia can show up in your financial portfolio. Missed bill payments and erratic investments could be indicators, and they can happen years before an official diagnosis."

How your bank account might predict dementia (10 min):

How your bank account might predict dementia

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Replies (9)

johnnysd

johnnysd

2 months ago

There IS a good solution to this. Give Power of Attorney to a much younger person that you can trust with your life and with your money, and do it while you still have your wits about you (or earlier if you are showing the signs of early-onset dementia). Then, relinquish your role in managing your own finances when the time comes. I am POA for my mother. Early on, we both had power to take actions on her behalf. Now, she is completely incapable of even the simplest financial task. In between then and now was a danger zone; a time where she thought she has things under control, but before I realized it, she’d been on the phone with a scammer for 30 minutes. He was trying to get her to give him full access to her computer screen. She was going along with it, but he caught her at a bad time, so she wasn’t able to follow his instructions correctly.

Mdigenna

Mdigenna

2 months ago

My mother has dementia. This is the only time where I found having a financial advisor absolutely saved her. In the period of not having the diagnosis yet and her decline a “friend” convinced her to fund a real estate purchase while the person would run it. He flagged it as suspicious and already noted the changes in my mom as he had known her for 20+ years. He advised her against it and she listened. She would not listen to me. It would have cost her millions and if she was able to do it herself or able to have her friend move the funds, it would have happened.

CincyFlyer

CincyFlyer

2 months ago

If you have adult children that you'd trust to manage your money, start getting the paperwork in place now; it's much easier for everyone if you do that while you're still competent to sign legal documents, and they don't need to take effect immediately.

If not, look into Childfree Trust. It's specifically designed for us, and reasonably priced.

UncleFrank

UncleFrank

2 months ago

You need to empower other people in your lives, starting with your partner and then including adult children when appropriate. Hire an advice only financial advisor that is YOUNGER than you if appropriate.

We took control of our parents' finances as they declined. Thankfully, I have two siblings I can work with.

J.P. MoreGains

J.P. MoreGains

2 months ago

This is an important topic. Need to have a plan in place!

Roberto Sánchez

Roberto Sánchez

2 months ago

I haven't listened to this podcast, but I am aware of the problem and actively dealing with it in my own family. I have a relative who has a very strong aversion to discussing anything money-related. Everyone in the family thinks "oh, they're really savvy and they're very well organized." And that is true, for now. I can't even bring up the issue of age-related cognitive decline to this person in order to try to make sure that things are in order financially because they would consider it massively insulting and intrusive, and I can't find support from anyone else in the family to help broach the topic. This has to be one of the more difficult problems to deal with in terms of personal finance.

yottabit

yottabit

2 months ago

I always thought my mom and stepdad would be well off financially in retirement because they both had good jobs that paid well. But it turned out to be the opposite. My stepdad has always been a narcissist and chronic liar, sadly; he always gave the impression that he made a lot of money, invested, and was living below his means. Fast forward to a few years ago, when I took over everything with POA due to dementia diagnosis for both of them, and the picture was bleak. My late grandmother's houses being put up for auction by the counties due to non-payment of property tax, their residence going into foreclosure for non-payment of the mortgage (only $700 left on principal!), credit cards maxed out and no payments, cable disconnected, water and electric being threatened with disconnection, cars' registration expired, property tax overdue, negative bank account balances, scam transactions every week in the accounts, overdue student loan from decades prior, embezzled my late grandmother's estate and were being sued by my aunts and uncles, no retirement accounts… the list goes on.

Luckily they had good social security and pension payments, and had a little bit of money in a whole life insurance plan that they didn't need, so by cutting off access to everything, cashing out the insurance plan, and using the monthly income responsibly, I was able to get everything but the student loan paid off in 18 months, and the student loan is now on automatic payments. I've been able to get them 24/7 in-home care, and while I live halfway across the country from them, I have local siblings that see them every week to take care of medications and groceries.

I guess the lesson I would like to share, is to be vigilant and keep trying. Things are not always as good as they seem from the outside. Try to catch them in a good mood, on an agreeable day, and get them to sign a POA "just in case." If they have ever used an attorney for something, you might be able to get the attorney to notarize and give them comfort that there's a third-party involved. This is how I was able to get it done with my mom and stepdad.

Chellyfish

Chellyfish

1 month ago

This is such an important topic. I’m currently being thrown into a similar situation with my mom right now. I’m exhausted and overwhelmed. I’m selling her home soon and will need to deal with the funds from that. I’ve been in the accumulation phase and a new parent myself so I haven’t had the time to sit down and learn enough about draw down strategies and where to move the money to. She has a high fee financial advisor now so I definitely want to get the money out of there but otherwise I’ve been too exhausted to figure out the rest of my plan at this point. A lot of what you wrote really resonated with my situation, thank you for posting!

yottabit

yottabit

1 month ago

Consider for the short term just putting all the cash into a MMF, or better yet, VBIL (a MMF-like ETF that pays more). This will give you a super safe place to put the money while you figure out what you want to do for draw down, and make some dividends while doing it.

I would start by multiplying their annual expenses, minus any income from social security, pensions, and annuities, by 6 to 10 years (depending how conservative you want to be), and putting that amount into bonds.

I don't like the total bond funds like BND, BNDX, and BNDW because they hold a significant portion of long-term bonds, and at today's interest rates that's pretty risky. Instead, I like to use short-term and intermediate-term bonds in the US and a little bit of international, and some mortgage security (still using BNDX because it's harder to split international like US):

  • 8.33% VGSH
  • 25% VGIT
  • 8.33% VCSH
  • 25% VCIT
  • 26.67% VMBS
  • 10% BNDX
  • 5% VWOB

The rest I would put into VT for maximum global diversification in equities. That's the easy button.

In a given year when the stock market is growing by at least 7% annualized, I would take expenses from VT. And when the market is not growing by that much, I would take proportional amounts from the bonds. Then when the market recovers, refill the bonds. Don't forget to adjust the bond allocation by inflation each year. The reinvested dividends will handle that for the most part, but good to double check each year. If the bonds start to exceed the 8-10 years of expenses, they can be trimmed and the excess put into VT.

I hope this helps give you some ideas!

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