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Reached FI technically BUT...

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bgcapitalstrategies · · 9 replies

Hi Everyone! I’m new to the community, but I’ve been following the FIRE mentality for a while and feel like I’ve had this mindset for years. I find myself to be fairly financially savvy but I’m hoping to get some clarity on a few things from fellow FIRE members before making the leap. Here’s my situation:

  1. How do I calculate rental income into my FI number?
    I currently own properties that cash flow $5k/month. In two years, one property will be paid off, which will bring my cash flow to around $9k/month, which covers my living expenses (between $8k - $10k/month) and I would no longer "need" my retirement accounts but have a strong buffer in the event I want to spend lavishly at times. How do I factor in these rental earnings when calculating my FIRE number?
  2. Is using cash from a HYSA a good strategy to bridge the gap?
    I have cash in a HYSA (plus dividends and gains from my taxable account) which would cover my rental income vs monthly expense gap for approx two years. Is it wise to rely on my HYSA to cover living expenses until the property is paid off, or should I be thinking about this differently?
  3. Are illiquid assets (like real estate) valid for the FI number?
    My net worth is currently at 50x my annual expenses, which was my goal. However, my properties aren’t liquid, so I’m wondering: should I still count my real estate holdings toward my FIRE goal, even though I can’t easily sell them for cash? I'm also RE heavy at 70% vs stocks/retirement accounts, would the community generally lean towards selling most properties and invest in equities/bonds?
  4. How do you find purpose in early retirement?
    I’m planning to retire in September, but I’m a bit paranoid about it. I’ve spent my whole career building to earn my current $200k/year salary, and while I’m financially secure, I fear I might lose my sense of purpose or direction once I’m no longer working. How have others managed this transition? What did you do to find purpose outside of your career?
  5. Lessons learned from retiring young?
    For those who retired before 59: What lessons have you learned that you wish someone had told you beforehand? What would you have done differently in terms of planning, mindset, or lifestyle changes? Any advice to ensure a smooth transition?

Thanks in advance for any insights you can share! I’m really looking forward to learning from your experiences.

Thank you!

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Replies (9)

Del S

Del S

9 months ago

  • How do you find purpose in early retirement? I fear I might lose my sense of purpose or direction once I’m no longer working. How have others managed this transition? What did you do to find purpose outside of your career?

I believe that purpose is more like "evolution" than something you "find"; it's a practice, not something you "acquire". Same with "happiness" (better expressed as "contentment").

When you retire, if you ...

  • Value income, you will lose some purpose
  • Value the status of "being employed", you will lose some purpose
  • Want to avoid doing things you're less good at than your career, you will lose some purpose
  • Need to prove your self worth, you will definitely lose a lot of purpose

On the flip side, if you ...

  • Put yourself in situations to meet others and cultivate nurturing and inspiring relationships with new people you will probably be inspired in new ways to evolve your purpose
  • Pick 1-2 new things and really approach them with pure, beginner-like curiosity paired with focus you might hit on things that eventually evolve as part of a purpose
  • Spend time really putting in perspective how silly anything we do is once our basic needs are met, you will move more lightly and play more ... which can almost only lead to some sort of fulfilling, purposeful practice (aka "let yourself play and be happy")

Putting yourself "out there"/"in the arena" is the game: no more following, just exploration, curiosity, and ongoing practice. It takes putting yourself out there to meet people and really trying at things without having to.

  • Lessons learned from retiring young? For those who retired before 59: What lessons have you learned that you wish someone had told you beforehand? What would you have done differently in terms of planning, mindset, or lifestyle changes? Any advice to ensure a smooth transition?

Have 5 years of simple, core expenses in less-volatile assets (like CD/GIC, short-term & high-grade bonds, HYSA, Cash) BEFORE pulling the plug to address Sequence of Returns Risk (alternately a percent of portfolio with a glide path as modeled by BigERN).

Consider Christine Benz's suggestion: take a chunk of money and set it aside as "spending money" with the goal of spending all of it within 5 years. This can help with psychology around learning to spend rather than actively accumulate. (Sorry, can't find a link!)

See if you can find other FI folks who are close to their retirement date--either before or after--with whom you can talk things over. People closer to your situation will inherently give more applicable advice.

Get clear on just how much you have internalized cultural scripts around work, worth, value, status, and just "fitting in". If you don't make peace with that it can be rough.

Choose your friends and others who are around you according to your new situation. People dragging you down for something that means a lot to you can add to the problems. Don't throw your retirement in anyone's face, but drop hints like "I'm stepping back from work for a bit ..." and see how they respond. Engage with those for whom that line of thinking creates a spark or a curiosity.

The flip side of the last point is something a friend pointed out to me: most criticisms that will pop up regarding your decision to retire early that are "knee jerk" really stem from personal insecurities. For example, if someone says "I can't imagine doing nothing for the rest of my life like that", its likely meaning is closer to "the only sense of self worth I have is people coming to me because I know how to get things done at the office, and I'd be terrified if that went away" ... they're just projecting their inner model of the world on you as criticism!

Roberto Sánchez

Roberto Sánchez

9 months ago

I'm getting a server error when trying to view the whole thread, so I'm not sure if anyone has addressed your "purpose" question.

Basically, you have to ask yourself, "if I don't have to be at a job, what will be my motivation to get up every day?"

It varies tremendously for different people, but the gist is "be part of something greater than yourself." For many people, that could be church, or if that's not for you then some sort of community service opportunity. Or maybe you want to spend some time traveling or having adventures. It doesn't have to remain the same for the rest of your life, and there's nothing wrong with saying "I'm just going to take the next 6 months and decompress", but in general you need to have something outside of you that is pushing/pulling/guiding you.

JDFI

JDFI

9 months ago

Lots of great questions...

How do I calculate rental income into my FI number?

Assuming you plan to keep the rentals for the foreseeable future..., count only reliable income (portion of net income you have very high confidence would be received even in light of higher than normal vacancies, considering potential evictions, high unreimbursed repair expenses, etc) as reducing your expenses needing to be covered by your FI assets, and don't also count the asset value in your FI number, or you are double counting.

If you have a plan to sell rentals down the road, then you likely need a more sophisticated calculator than just simple FI number, as you need to model different time segments (rental income until sale, then no rental income, but net of taxes equity return to reinvest and only then count in FI number). Given your numbers, you sound like you should be well over-funded for retirement either way. I like to use a few different types of retirement calculators to validate a time segmented plan (Monte Carlo, funded ratio, and Safe Withdrawal Rate based calculator).

cash flow to around $9k/month, which covers my living expenses (between $8k - $10k/month) and I would no longer "need" my retirement accounts

That would mean you only need a 0% Safe Withdrawal Rate, which is way more than you need to retire financially secure.

Is using cash from a HYSA a good strategy to bridge the gap?

That is a fine strategy for a short bridge. Though you should decide if and how much of a cash buffer you want to maintain in retirement (this is usually higher than an emergency fund while working), and have a plan to refill the HYSA if your cash on hand falls below your comfort level during the bridge period. It is similar to a bridge strategy until Social Security kicks in. Speaking of which, you didn't mention if you expect any/significant Social Security income by 70 or sooner.

Are illiquid assets (like real estate) valid for the FI number?

Don't count your primary residence in your FI number unless you plan to sell it and switch to renting soon (in which case you have to count renting costs in your planned FI expenses if you count primary residence asset value in income producing FI number).

I addressed this above. The main thing is if you subtract rental income from expenses needing to be covered by FI assets, don't double count by also including rental asset value in FI number.

I'm also RE heavy at 70% vs stocks/retirement accounts, would the community generally lean towards selling most properties and invest in equities/bonds?

This is as much a lifestyle question as a financial one. Individually held rental real estate is a part time job, unless you have a very good property manager that you trust a lot doing almost everything for you. It is semi-passive rather than passive. Depends on how OK you are with property management responsibilities late into retirement. I think at some point it would get to be too much, even if it is fine in early retirement, so you likely should consider an exit strategy for some point, even if a decade or more down the road. The one that seems most viable other than selling outright and taking the tax deferral hit with subsequent loss of future returns, is a direct 721 exchange to separate the shift from semi-passive to passive from the loss of tax deferral.

How do you find purpose in early retirement?

A very valid concern. You may want to consider a phased retirement if that is an option, to give you time to experiment with new purpose and direction before you fully retire. Definitely spend some time thinking about (and trying if you can find the time) purposeful non work activities including new and old hobbies, volunteering, even recreational employment, to see what provides a good substitute. I recommend Jordan Grummet's "The Purpose Code" ( or listen to him talk about it on various podcasts).

Lessons learned from retiring young?

I'm quite happy with how smoothly my semi-early (late 50s) early retirement has gone, so don't have much to suggest beyond what I said above. I'm sure others will offer additional lessons learned.

That said, I have learned some things from reading up and listening to a lot about FIRE. Most of what I learned is well communicated by the various FI[RE] blogs and podcasts, so no need to repeat here. But a few things I had to suss out on my own from conflicting or less well known sources I summarized here: FIRE financial and social media "common knowledge" and research(ers) conclusion disconnects

Brad Barrett

Brad Barrett

9 months ago

Welcome!! I'm a bit strapped for time for a longer answer but wanted to take a shot at your bullet 1:

Let's say your annual expenses are $100,000 and you have rental property is bringing in $60,000 per year. Your $100,000 is simply reduced by the $60,000, and then you need to replace $40,000 of additional income. To calculate this, you just multiply by 25 so $40,000 x 25 = $1,000,000. That is your current FI number.

It sounds like in two years when the property is paid off you will have over $100,000 of rental income. At that point, if that net rental income is exceeding your annual expenses, then you are at FI.

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